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Will Shortz, Puzzles Editor for the New York Times
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Sunday 23rd April, 9pm - 11pm BST... | |
MSO_Admin: On behalf of the MSO and all of the guests tonight, I would like to welcome Will Shortz. He has quite the list of accomplishments, including New York Times Crossword Editor, Past Editor of Games Magazine...
MSO_Admin: ...Founder, US Team Captain, Director etc. World Puzzle Championship. Holder of the world's only degree in Enigmatology, and esteemed guest tonight, among many other things.
MSO_Admin: I would like to welcome you all here, and invite you to all take part...
Will Shortz: Happy Easter, everyone!
MSO_Admin: ...in a somewhat orderly way. If the group gets too large, we will have to resort to a system to ensure things get asked and answered properly.
Bollide: Hi Mr. Shortz...it's an honor
Will Shortz: Where are you from, Bollide?
Bollide: I certainly enjoy your crosswords and the Sunday puzzle
Bollide: Maine
Will Shortz: Thank you!
MSO_Admin: But for now. Welcome, and I will let Mr. Shortz and guest continue as they have begun.
Bollide: tell me, when do you usually record the puzzle sessions w/ Liane?
Will Shortz: The Sunday puzzle is usually recorded on Friday afternoon.
Bollide: I've entered several times, but never been chosen
Will Shortz: Sunday puzzle on National Public Radio, that is.
Bollide: ic...great...I'll keep entering
Bollide: right
Bollide: are there others?
Bollide: on the radio?
Will Shortz: The random selection of the winners on NPR really is done randomly
Will Shortz: ... although I have nothing to do with it
TheMazeMan: so we can't bribe you to choose us ? (grin)
Bollide: yes, I realize that...just wondered if I was selected but then not reached by phone...
Will Shortz: No, my only radio puzzles are on NPR. I mentioned that just for the benefit of people here who didn't know what we were talking about.
Bollide: never had a message from Liane on my machine yet!
rochmd: when the puzzle answers are randomly selected how are the email entries represented in the pile of postcards?
steve: can you talk about the basic way to construct a xword puzzle
Bollide: good question
Bollide: (s)
Will Shortz: Sure, I'll happily accept bribe money! It just won't help you get your entry selected!
Bollide: lol
Will Shortz: The random entry selecter for NPR figures out about how many entries come in by mail and how many by email ...
Will Shortz: and then proceeds accordingly.
Will Shortz: I don't know the exact process.
Will Shortz: Constructing a crossword ...
Will Shortz: In the U.S., the first thing is to start with the theme.
Will Shortz: Most American crosswords have themes--a few long answers that have some humorous connection.
Will Shortz: Then the puzzlemaker plots the pattern of black squares.
Will Shortz: In American crosswords, these must be symmetrical.
Will Shortz: This generally means that if the grid is turned upside-down, the pattern will look the same as it did right-side-up.
daisy: is the symmetry just to make it more challenging?
Will Shortz: The constructor places the black squares so as to cordon off the grid into sections that can be filled with words.
Will Shortz: Daisy, the symmetry requirement does make puzzle constructing more challenging.
Will Shortz: However, the reason for symmetry is to make the grid prettier or more aesthetically pleasing.
steve: I think the inclusion of the last few words must be very difficult...esp to follow the theme
Will Shortz: Symmetry has been the rule in almost all crosswords since the 1920s.
Will Shortz: You're right, Steve!
rochmd: though I enjoy the weekly word puzzles on NPR, I would like to see number puzzles be used more than they currently are used - any thoughts on this?
MSO_Admin: Good questions, daisy, steve, bollide,rochmd etc.
steve: So will...you just need to be clever and knowledgeable of many many words?
Will Shortz: The puzzlemaker should begin with the areas of the grid that look like the hardest to fill ...
Will Shortz: and save the easier ones till later.
Will Shortz: For example, if the placement of theme entries and black squares means that you need a 5-letter words starting with O and ending with I ...
Will Shortz: then you should start with that first, because there are so few possibilities.
Bollide: as editor of the NY Times crossword, how much "editing" do you do on each puzzle?
Will Shortz: [How many such answers can you think of? I can think of OMANI and OKAPI off the top of my head]
Bollide: do they ever come to you with no need of editing?
steve: Thank you so much...I know there are many, many questions so I appreciate your spending time on my simple question
Will Shortz: And, yes, a puzzlemaker (and editor) has to be knowledgable about lots and lots of things.
book: yes
Will Shortz: Of course, I have jillions of reference books as well, in which to look things up.
Will Shortz: But it helps to *know* stuff and verify it in a reference rather than just look for stuff.
Will Shortz: Bollide, you asked how much editing I do
Bollide: yes
Puzzookies: Will what sort to online tools do you use?
Will Shortz: I consider the most important part of my job working with the contributors
Will Shortz: ... because they're the ones who create the Times puzzles.
Peter: Will: are there any primers for beginners on constructing xword puzzles
Will Shortz: I get 8 to 10 puzzles submitted to me for every one that I can use.
Bollide: do they ever present you with a puzzle that requires nothing from you?
Will Shortz: So my job is to review all the submissions, pick my favorites, and tell the contributors what I like and what I don't.
Bollide: I see
Will Shortz: I answer all submissions--most of them personally.
Will Shortz: As far as editing goes, I do sometimes revise the grids.
Bollide: wow! busy guy!
MSO_MazeMan: so, just like an author submitting manuscripts, they learn back from you how to make their submissions better
Gabby: (Aside to Peter- there are books available....
Will Shortz: For example, if I got a terrific puzzle submitted to me that had a fly of Afghanistan in one corner ...
Will Shortz: I would try to revise the grid to get rid of that.
Will Shortz: ... because that's not a word I think you should have to know.
Will Shortz: Finally comes the editing of the clues.
Peter: Gabby - can you lead me to one or two?
Will Shortz: The most important thing is that they be accurate.
Will Shortz: But they also have to be at the right level of difficulty.
Will Shortz: And fresh, fun, and interesting -- I hope!
Bollide: they are!
Will Shortz: On average about half the clues in a Times crosword are my own.
Will Shortz: There are some constructors that I hardly edit at all.
Gabby: ... but mostly out of print. The one most likely to be reprinted, as far as I know, is the Random House Puzzlemaker's handbook.)
Bollide: That's nice to know...thank you.
DavidSaslav: Hey Will, How are you? My question is: Do the long answers to your NYT daily crosswords always conform to a theme?
Will Shortz: There are other puzzles in which almost all the clues may be mine.
Will Shortz: David Saslav, good question.
Will Shortz: The Monday to Thursday crosswords always have themes.
Whippy: Do you mean that the constructors build the grid, but you provide the clues?
Will Shortz: Occasionally, the Friday and Saturday ones do, too ... but not so often.
Will Shortz: Whippy, the constructors do everything.
Will Shortz: But I edit.
Peter: Thanks Gabby
DavidSaslav: I think it was last Friday's that was giving me fits looking for commonality -- so that explains it!
Whippy: And sometimes half the clues are yours!
Bollide: how far out do you work?
Will Shortz: If a daily crossword has more than 72 answers, it must have a theme.
Will Shortz: That's my rule.
DavidSaslav: That's certainly helpful!
Whippy: Which is harder to accomplish; constructing the grid or providing the clues?
Will Shortz: If the grid has 72 answers or fewer, then it may have a theme, but doesn't have to.
Peter: Will: can you illustrate an interesting of humorous error that got past you?
Will Shortz: Bollide, I usually work 4 to 6 weeks ahead.
Bollide: thanks
Will Shortz: But I have a large supply of accepted puzzles on hand.
DavidSaslav: Next question: I've never fully understood the NPR Sunday Morning challenge's winner selection process...to wit -- if I submit an answer electronically to puzzle@npr.org, by when must it be received?
Will Shortz: Whippy, the harder part of constructing definitely is doing the grid.
MSO_Admin: We are at the point where there are simply too many people/questions, So please enter a ? when you have a question and we will have to get to them in order.
Will Shortz: Writing good clues can be hard, too ... but the grid is the most important thing.
DavidSaslav: It would be helpful if you mentioned on the air whether a given winner submitted via email or by postcard...
Will Shortz: Hmmm. Errors.
Will Shortz: About 20 errors in the Times crossword get through each year.
DavidSaslav: At least I'm assuming that the on-air challenge segment is prerecorded, right? Otherwise, by what point do you know if your correct answer has been chosen?
Puzzookies: Will: you say you have lost of books; what online tools do you use?
Will Shortz: Most of them are small and not noticed by more than one or two people, but they're errors still.
rochmd: ?any chance of getting more math (number) puzzles on the weekly npr puzzle?
Bollide: David...Will already said the on air puzzle winner is contact on Friday afternoon.
Will Shortz: The NPR puzzle is taped on Friday afternoon.
Will Shortz: The winner is usually notified on Thursday afternoon or evening ...
Bollide: usual deadline is Thursday
Will Shortz: although occasionally on Friday morning.
DavidSaslav: Thanks, Bollide and Will !
Will Shortz: Regarding references ...
Will Shortz: My desk is surrounded by reference books
Will Shortz: First, I have lots and lots of dictionaries
Will Shortz: Unabridged, abridged, slang, new words, etc.
Will Shortz: Then I have at least one reference book on almost any topic you could name ...
Peter: ?
Will Shortz: geography, biography, opera, movies, TV, rock and roll, Broadway, sports, the Bible, etc. etc.
Will Shortz: Every single clue in a crossword has to be verified for accuracy.
MSO_MazeMan: Current ? list: Peter
Will Shortz: If I'm not positive about something, I look it up.
Will Shortz: After a puzzle is edited, I typeset it.
Will Shortz: That's my job, too!
Will Shortz: Then the puzzle goes out to 3 testers.
Peter: will: What languages are you fluent in?
Will Shortz: They actually solve the puzzle ... and one of these persons rechecks every fact after me.
verbena: Here's one for you, Will. Take the name of a grain, change one letter and you'll get the name of an entertainer.
Will Shortz: So not many mistakes slip through this exhaustive system.
DavidSaslav: Last question -- do you really (have time to) read all the puzzle ideas people send you? E.g., the very first idea I sent to puzzle@npr.org for an on-air challenge you used about three months later (N-I-C-E word challenge). You probably have a backlog of half a year's worth of challenges.
Will Shortz: I ready every NPR idea that's submitted to me.
Will Shortz: But I respond only if the answer is yes.
Will Shortz: There'd be too much correspondence otherwise.
Whippy: Will, thank you for your NPR puzzles. I am a runner, and I can't start my Sunday morning long run until I've got the listeners' challenge to bring with me!
Will Shortz: And I'm afraid I don't have a secretary. Every letter or response is from me.
Will Shortz: Thank you, Whippy!
Puzzookies: Will: Did you ever consider being on Jeopardy?
MSO_Admin: Please people enter a simple ? if you have a question, and we will try to get to it in turn.
Will Shortz: Verbena, I don't know the answer to your question!
Will Shortz: Of course, I'm a little busy here!
verbena: Well, it's pearl barley that becomes Pearl bailey.
Will Shortz: Ah
Will Shortz: Thanks
Will Shortz: I would consider going on "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" ...
Bollide: good one, Verbena
Puzzookies: ?
Will Shortz: only I know 3 or 4 of the writers/researchers
Will Shortz: So they'd never let me on the show
MSO_MazeMan: Current ? list: Puzzookies
Will Shortz: As you might guess, I'm a "Millionaire" addict.
Will Shortz: Rarely miss it.
MSO_MazeMan: Will, whenever you're ready for the next question, just call the first person in the list, I'll keep track of the names.
Will Shortz: Hmmm, not sure I understand. Just shoot something this way
MSO_Admin: I believe that rochmd has the next Q.
MSO_Admin: Please go ahead rochmd.
Will Shortz: Meanwhile, here's a puzzle for anyone who'd like to try it ...
Will Shortz: The word INFERNO contains 4 consonants (N, F, R, and another N, in that order).
Will Shortz: Can you name a familiar phrase in 13 letters that has only those 4 consonants in that order?
Will Shortz: RochMD, go ahead.
rochmd: any chance of more number puzzles on the weekly puzzle?
Will Shortz: Sure, I'll consider that.
MSO_Admin: After rochmd, then puzzookies to keep things straight.
rochmd: thanks
Will Shortz: As you might guess, I'm a little better at word puzzles than math ones myself.
Will Shortz: But I enjoy all types.
Gabby: (Solved the Inferno puzzle. :)
Will Shortz: Bravo, Gabby!
Gabby: (blushes)
MSO_Admin: Good question rochmd, next to Puzzookies
Puzzookies: What online (computer) toools do you use?
Will Shortz: Generally, I find it easiest to use books rather than the computer to verify facts and spellings.
Puzzookies: how about for anagrams?
Will Shortz: But if no book answers my question, I usually do a search on AltaVista.
Will Shortz: I know there are some good anagram programs out there, but I start with my own head ...
Will Shortz: and then use an anagram reference or the Franklin Crosswords Solver to help.
Peter: ?
MSO_Admin: Ah the best computer the human brain. Good question Puzzookies. Peter go ahead.
Will Shortz: Peter, go ahead.
Peter: Will: What languages are you fluent in?
Will Shortz: English!
Will Shortz: Somewhat!
Gabby: Puzzookie, I can provide a list of internet puzzle resources if you like...
Will Shortz: I can also read French
Will Shortz: I also have about 20 foreign-language dictionaries ...
Will Shortz: so if I'm desperate to translate something from Romanian or Dutch, say, I'll do a word-for-word translation using a reference.
Will Shortz: Anybody what the answer to the INFERNO puzzle?
Will Shortz: want, not what
Will Shortz: Tell 'em, Gabby
Puzzookies: ?
MSO_Admin: Interesting question Peter. If you would like to ask a question of the amazing Mr. Shortz, please enter a ?
MSO_Admin: Go ahead Puzz.
Puzzookies: My fingers slip on the keysall the time, thats what style checkers are for.
Will Shortz: I'll have some more puzzles in a few minutes.
steve: ?
MSO_Admin: Yes steve...
Gabby: There are on-line dictionaries at www.dict.org, www.m-w.com, www.infoplease.com and www.lycos.com/referenceroom
steve: What is Will's basic attack plan for solving word ladders?
Will Shortz: My main dictionary of reference is the Random House Unabridged, 2nd edition.
Will Shortz: For a small dictionary, I use Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 10th edition
Will Shortz: Webster's Third New International, the huge unabridged, is great for obscurer terms
Puzzookies: ?
Will Shortz: Here's something that came up in a Times puzzle last week.
Will Shortz: The answer was I'M OUTA HERE
Will Shortz: I wasn't sure if OUTA needed two T's or not
Will Shortz: That's how *I* would have spelled it.
Will Shortz: Unfortunately, no dictionary has OUTTA or OUTA in it.
DaveSaslav: It did (IMHO) but the slanginess of that particular puzzle implicitly cut you some slack.
Will Shortz: So I went onto AltaVista and ran a search on OUTTA HERE and OUTA HERE.
Will Shortz: I found that both are common ... although the two-T version is much commoners.
Will Shortz: commoner
Gabby: www.bartleby.com is an online version of Bartlett's familiar quotations plus has other works available as well. www.bibliomania.com also has a number of useful references on it, including Brewer's dictionary of phrase and fable.
Bollide: yeah, I wondered about outa here, too...
DaveSaslav: Verbena -- what's the answer to INFERNO? All I can come up with is "In for a penny" which is no good.
Will Shortz: Fortunately, Gabby, I have print versions of almost all the references you've named.
Will Shortz: Gabby knows.
verbena: Dave, I haven't cracked it yet. Ask Gabby...
DaveSaslav: Got it -- an eye for an eye!
Will Shortz: Yay!
MSO_Admin: I think that steve's question about your plan of attack for Word ladders is still open, then Puzzookies is next.
Gabby: I don't have room for those references on my shelves, and if I'm solving, the internet is a quicker place to look it up much of the time (when 100%% accuracy doesn't matter.)
Will Shortz: Steve, I'm a huge fan of word ladders from way back.
verbena: Are you a fan of wordplay in fiction, such as Nabokov?
Will Shortz: I usually can do them in the minimum number of steps
rochmd: ?
Will Shortz: If the two end words don't have the same vowel/consonant pattern, the key to solving is align the vowels and consonants.
Will Shortz: That's the tricky part.
Will Shortz: Verbena, I'm afraid I haven't read Nabokov
steve: ?
Will Shortz: Wordplay in fiction isn't something I'm really drawn to.
MSO_Admin: Thanks steve, puzzookies lease ask the next question, then rochmd.
Will Shortz: I get so much wordplay in real life, that I don't need even more in my fiction!
Gabby: for word-searching, there are several sites I have bookmarked. The ones at www.puzzlers.org/krewe get visited a fair bit by me, in part because there are some specialty searches available there.
Puzzookies: You never commented on Jeopardy I like it better than Millionaire. Did you ever think about being on it?
Will Shortz: Puzzookies, I know one or two of the writers there, too ... so they'd never let me on.
Gabby: There are also some specialty searches at www.interlog.com/~cfaj/xword/wf.cgi
MSO_Admin: Thanks for the Question Puzz. and Gabby for the information
steve: Another puzzle?
Puzzookies: There is always Celebrity Jeopardy
Will Shortz: Here's a puzzler for everyone ...
MSO_Admin: rochmod is next, please, then steve to follow...
Will Shortz: I used it on NPR about 3-1/2 years ago
Will Shortz: Think of a common word that contains the letter V.
Will Shortz: Change the V to ATH (in that order) and you'll get a new word that means the opposite of the original. What is it?
Gabby: One more before I clam up: www.oneacross.com handles individual cles very well (and has a real good cryptogram solver to boot.
MSO_Admin: If rochmd would like to go ahead after the puzzle is asked...
verbena: Got it
steve: Unfortunately I remember the answer...
Will Shortz: Oooh, you're sharp.
Gabby: Got it.
rochmd: how do you determine the exclusivity or uniqueness in your word puzles?
DaveSaslav: LOVE --) LOATHE
rochmd: puzzles
Will Shortz: Bravo!
DaveSaslav: What's weird is that I called over to my wife to think of a word that contained a v and she immediately said "LOVE" -- so I kind of cheated!
Will Shortz: I test all my NPR puzzles on 2-3 people before they air.
cjr2000: ?
Will Shortz: These are sharp people, so if they don't think of alternative answers, I'm probably okay.
Puzzookies: ?
Will Shortz: But even if an alternative answer is proposed, that's okay.
Will Shortz: CJR2000, go ahead.
DaveSaslav: Here's one for the assembled luminaries -- can you think of two homynyms (words that sound the same) which are opposites of one another?
Will Shortz: I know I know!
cjr2000: why are word puzzles more interesting than math puzzles, if you think so?
Will Shortz: Dave, that puzzle gets rediscovered and resubmitted to me all the time.
Will Shortz: CJR, I don't think word puzzles are inherently more interesting than math puzzles.
DaveSaslav: My dad first turned me onto it about thirty years ago, so I'm not surprised by that one bit!
MSO_Admin: Thanks for the question cjr2000, puzzookies is next.
steve: Dave...does it begin with r?
DaveSaslav: R
Will Shortz: Any puzzle that's based on an original *idea* is good.
Puzzookies: If you're an infomonger try www.Refdesk.com , it is amazing.
DaveSaslav: I mean Yes
Gabby: ?
MSO_Admin: Puzzookies go ahead, followed by Gabby.
steve: Will, if you like altavista, you may enjoy www.google.com as a wonderful search engine
Will Shortz: How does it differ from AltaVista, Steve?
DaveSaslav: I agree -- google groups links by website
Will Shortz: (Thanks, I'll try it.)
DaveSaslav: But Ask Jeeves is great for folks who don't "get" search engines.
Will Shortz: I just started using Britannica.com
Puzzookies: Try www.infind.com for adifferent veiw of things
steve: Google sorts on the number of times that a page is referenced by other sites...it seems to bring better sites to the top of its list...and it is extraordinarily fast
Will Shortz: That's useful for information that you know is in an encyclopedia but can't find.
Will Shortz: For example, last week I was looking for the name TSEN. Britannica found it for me.
DaveSaslav: Because it is "NEST" backwards, perchance?
Will Shortz: Well, *that* we wouldn't allow in crosswords!
Gabby: (more likely Fri-Sat. crosswordese, I'd guess)
Will Shortz: Is everyone in this chatroom from the United States? Or is there anyone from Europe?
cjr2000: europe :)
Will Shortz: (Besides PeterWPF, of course, who's from the Netherlands)
Will Shortz: Ah, good
book: europe
pegasus: ?
Will Shortz: Great Britain?
MSO_Admin: Some of us are Canadian too.
Will Shortz: Gotcha
cjr2000: Sweden
Gabby: Canuck ditto.
DaveSaslav: Blame Canada!
Will Shortz: Gabby, you're formerly Gab-F?
Will Shortz: Hello, mathpuzzlecom
Gabby: Yes, but now ypu've thoroughly confused everyone else. :)
Will Shortz: You're from Colorado, right?
mathpuzzlecom: How'd you know that? :)
MSO_Admin: If Puzzookies does not have a question, then Gabby is next, followed by pegasus.
MSO_Admin: Puzz?
Will Shortz: Questions, questions!
DaveSaslav: I think the main distinction between math and word puzzles is that math wouldn't exist if not for the symbolic relationships it describes. Word/Letter relationships are more "incidental" to the reason they exist -- which is to convey meaning. IMHO.
mathpuzzlecom: _ _ _ E _ _ A _ S _ _ T _ _ E _ _ R _ _ _ -- fill in the blanks
Puzzookies: A good but obscure,anagram generator is http://www.mi.uib.no/~ingeke/anagram/index_eng.html
Will Shortz: One word, mathpuzzlecom?
MSO_Admin: Go ahead with your q. Gabby.
mathpuzzlecom: Two words.. an item you might have in your house
Gabby: If a puzzle is sent to you and is not something rediscovered, and works correctly, how likely is it to be used on NPR?
Gabby: (Thinking of sending something along. :)
Will Shortz: Gabby, if a puzzle is terrific, then I use it.
pegasus: any tips / tricks for contructing crosswords?
ptomaine1: ahem... homonyms, please?
Will Shortz: Today's NPR puzzle was submitted by someone I do not know and had never heard from before.
Will Shortz: RAISE, RAZE
ptomaine1: ah, thanks
Will Shortz: Ptomaine1, I like your screen name!
Gabby: OK, then I'll send it along to the NPR puzzler address.
ptomaine1: I didn't know until this morning that the word started with P!
Gabby: And cross my fingers. :)
Will Shortz: mathpuzzlecom, what is the dividing point between the 2 words?
MSO_Admin: Thanks Gabby, pegasus is next, go ahead when there is a break.
mathpuzzlecom: Ptomaine, Tom Paine is a famous example of a Word Deletion
Will Shortz: I used that on NPR years and years ago
DaveSaslav: Ptomaine1 did you choose your screen name because of this morning's on-air puzzle?
mathpuzzlecom: Between the T and E
ptomaine1: right!
Will Shortz: Famous American in history. Stick his first name inside his last name to get a word.
pegasus: any tips or tricks for constructing crosswords?
Will Shortz: My suggestion for new crossword constructors ...
Will Shortz: would be to take an easy crossword grid from your daily newspaper and see if you can fill it in.
Will Shortz: And by "easy," I mean a grid that lots of short words.
Will Shortz: Like a Monday New York Times crossword, usually.
mathpuzzlecom: More wordplay of this type at puzzlers.org -- homesite of the National Puzzlers league.
pegasus: i can do that. any ideas for avoiding "garbage words" when trying ...
Will Shortz: If you enjoy it, and are pretty good at it, then see if you get better.
pegasus: to fill in blanks around your theme?
Will Shortz: There's an online forum for crossword constructors:
Will Shortz: www.cruciverb.com
pegasus: execllent! i'll go there.
Will Shortz: It's free. And the people there will be happy to help you and answer your questions
Will Shortz: The site also has crossword style sheets for the New York Times and other publications
DaveSaslav: How about grid constructors for CRYPTIC crosswords, Will?
Will Shortz: "Garbage words" ... that's a good term for these.
MSO_Admin: Thanks for that one pegasus.
Will Shortz: As a solver, it's very easy to get annoyed by all the ARIAs, OREOs, and that sort of thing
Will Shortz: But as a constructor, you'll find that they're pretty darn useful!
Puzzookies: ?
Will Shortz: What do you mean, Dave?
Will Shortz: Constructing grids for cryptic crosswords is much easier than for American-style crosswords
Will Shortz: But there's still an art to it.
DaveSaslav: Right, I'm wondering if any websites capture this "art".
Gabby: DaveSaslav: there is an area of the NYT forums site devoted to cryptic crosswords which would also be a good place to ask that question. (forums.nytimes.com/comment, then follow the link.)
Will Shortz: Yes, Gabby, that's good.
cjr2000: do you know of/play any interesting two-player games or is it just puzzles for you?
Gabby: (Moderated by Emily Cox and Henry Rathvon.)
Will Shortz: Budding composers of cryptic crosswords post their original puzzles there, and Emily & Henry (as well as regular solvers) comment on them.
mathpuzzlecom: My favorite link for cryptics is http://home.freeuk.net/dharrison/puzzles/
Will Shortz: There's also a newsgroup ... rec.puzzles.crosswords
MSO_Admin: Go ahead with your Q puzzookies, when there is a slowdown.
Will Shortz: They discuss cryptic crosswords a lot.
Will Shortz: Go ahead, Q.
MSO_Admin: Puzzookies followed by cjr2000...
Puzzookies: A list of crossword is at http://www.refdesk.com/crosswrd.html I am sure you folks have other lists.
book: ?
Puzzookies: ?
Will Shortz: There's a great list of crossword links at www.crosswordtournament.com
MSO_Admin: cjr2000 had a question, followed by book and puzzookies again.
cjr2000: do you play any two-player games or is it just puzzles for you?
DaveSaslav: Cox and Rathvon are gods to me! I have their "Random House Guide to Cryptic Crosswords" (c 1995) which I have savored for five years (still about ten puzzles left to go!)
Will Shortz: CJR, I'm a big player!
cjr2000: any particular games?
mathpuzzlecom: Working at Games corrupted him
DaveSaslav: I have this month's Harper's magazine half-solved already too but...
Will Shortz: But usually not chess, bridge, and the standard stuff. I like more unusual games.
DaveSaslav: Do you like Cribbage will?
Will Shortz: I guess my favorite game is Boggle.
book: who, when and where invented the crossword puzzle?
Will Shortz: Sorry, I don't play cribbage.
Will Shortz: The crossword puzzle was invented by a man named Arthur Wynne.
Will Shortz: The first one appeared in the old New York World on Sunday, December 21, 1913
Will Shortz: The U.S. Post Office issued a stamp to commemorate this milestone two years ago!
Bollide: sounds like a good clue!
Will Shortz: I'm the only person (outside of a library) known to have an original copy of this puzzle.
Will Shortz: The world's first crossword puzzle book appeared in 1924.
Will Shortz: Within a few months it was a national bestseller
mathpuzzlecom: You might mention you are a collector, Will.
Will Shortz: And by the start of 1925, most newspapers in the United States were publishing crosswords.
cjr2000: why did crosswords become popular so quickly?
MSO_MazeMan: The very first puzzle is posted at http://www.crosswordtournament.com/more/wynne.html
Will Shortz: Yes, mathpuzzle, I'm a pretty serious puzzle collector ... I have more than 18,000 puzzle books and magazines dating back to 1545.
mathpuzzlecom: 1545?
Will Shortz: Plus thousands of puzzle advertising cards, broadsheets, records, and miscellaneous puzzle things.
Puzzookies: What about geometry puzzles? (I'm thinking toward www.Puzzookies.com ;-)
Will Shortz: CJR, crosswords were popular from the start because they satisfy several basic human needs ...
Will Shortz: Solving a mystery, playing with words, testing oneself.
cjr2000: do you think playing with words really is a basic human need?
Will Shortz: And the pattern of black-and-white squares is very compelling. Puzzle people almost *have* to fill them in.
Will Shortz: It's hard to turn a page in a newspaper or magazine and *not* fill them in!
mathpuzzlecom: ?
book: ?
Will Shortz: Plus, crosswords are a great diversion.
Will Shortz: Margaret Farrar, the first crossword editor for the NY Times, used to say that you can't worry about where your next rent check is coming from when your're trying to solve 1-Across and 1-Down.
MSO_Admin: If puzzookies has a question, please go ahead. Next in line are mathpuzzlecom, and book.
Will Shortz: CJR, maybe playing with words isn't a basic human need ... but it's certainly fun.
cjr2000: i agree with that :)
Will Shortz: Hello Jaime.
Puzzookies: I said mine.
MSO_Admin: Thanks Puzz, mathpuzzlecom please ask away.
DaveSaslav: Well I gotta go, thanks for the fish -- and "SHEEP AT PRAY" (2-wd anagram)
pegasus: happy easter
DaveSaslav: well done pegasus!
Will Shortz: Hurray!
mathpuzzlecom: How much are you willing to tamper with the 15x15 standard? Any chance you might have a 14x16 one day? Or a hexagonal grid? How fearful are you of complaints?
Will Shortz: Mathpuzzle, it's easier to interlock words in grid that have odd-square dimensions.
pegasus: i think the occasional grid with symbols instead of letters is enough tampering
Will Shortz: There's more flexibility in the middle area of a grid that's an odd number x an odd number.
Will Shortz: So I think odd-square grids will always be the norm.
MSO_Admin: Thanks for that mathpuzzlecom, book please go ahead.
Puzzookies: Hint: Folks you can open more than one browserwindow and switchbetween them
book: what is the longest time so far you have used trying to solve a puzzle without success?
Will Shortz: Most other countries use them, too (at least in the countries that use symmetrical crossword grids).
pegasus: i think i recall a nyt puzzle or two that had a few letters outside the grid
Will Shortz: Book, if I can't solve a puzzle, I leave it and come back to it later.
Will Shortz: I'm sure I have unsolved puzzles from 20 or 30 years or more!
mathpuzzlecom: You never look at the answer?
Will Shortz: According the the Guinness Book of Records, someone submitted a solution to a Times of London crossword about 50 years after it originally appeared!
Will Shortz: No, mathpuzzle, I almost never look at the answer.
Puzzookies: We'll, put them in your grave with you!
Will Shortz: The only time I would look is if a river of Romania were crossing a stone glyph in Zimbabwe. Something like that.
Will Shortz: In other words, something that I'd have no hope of finishing on my own.
Will Shortz: Thanks, Puzzookies!
Will Shortz: I put a date on every puzzle that I solve.
Will Shortz: Does anyone else do that?
Will Shortz: So I can flip through old puzzle books and see when I actually solved the puzzles in it.
cjr2000: sure, usually put time taken too
mathpuzzlecom: TIMIS -- river in Romania
cjr2000: especially on the wpc puzzles
pegasus: i do it with books of crosswords.
Will Shortz: CJR, are you competing in the World Puzzle Championship this year?
MSO_Admin: Thank you all for your Questions. Will can you give us a little bit of information about the World Puzzle Championships please?
Will Shortz: Nice to hear that I'm not alone about the dates!
cjr2000: no, i cant i think
cjr2000: i am from sweden :(
cjr2000: but i did pretty good on the ones i tried so far
Will Shortz: Right. Well, the World Puzzle Championship doesn't have a team yet from Sweden.
Will Shortz: Anyway, there will be an international online qualifying test for the WPC on Saturday, June 17.
mathpuzzlecom: Visit http://www.worldpuzzle.org/ for info.
Will Shortz: Starting at 1:00 in the afternoon New York time.
Will Shortz: Thank you, math puzzle.
Will Shortz: The test will last for 2-1/2 hours.
Will Shortz: You'll answer as many of the puzzles there as you can and email them to contest headquarters before time runs out.
Will Shortz: Part of the U.S. and Canadian WPC teams will be chosen this way.
cjr2000: think you should include some new puzzles this year, last us qualifyer really had a lot of 'classics'
pegasus: what type of puzzles are presented?
Will Shortz: Also, this test will be used to select part of the teams from Great Britain, Israel, Hungary, and India.
Will Shortz: The event is free, and anyone is welcome to participate.
mathpuzzlecom: If you have new puzzle types, CJR, the puzzle community would love to see them.
Will Shortz: Because the WPC is an international event, with participants who speak many languages, it has no crosswords or other word puzzles.
Will Shortz: Instead, the puzzles incorporate numbers, logic, observation, and spatial relationships.
cjr2000: i do have new puzzles, inspiration mainly comes from new puzzles playing games
Will Shortz: Everyone can participate on an equal basis, no matter where they're from.
cjr2000: mean inspiration comes from new and interesting two-player games
Will Shortz: Puzzles from the 1999 WPC qualifying test are still available at www.puzzles-usa.org
Will Shortz: And there's more information about the world event at www.worldpuzzle.org
Will Shortz: Anyway, CJR, you should try the test. You've got nothing to lose!
pegasus: ?
MSO_Admin: Please go ahead pegasus.
Will Shortz: If anyone else here is interested in non-word puzzles, you should go to www.mathpuzzle.com
Will Shortz: Lots of great stuff there.
mathpuzzlecom: Thank you, Will.
mathpuzzlecom: And msoworld.com ... but perhaps that one is obvious in context
Will Shortz: Of course.
pegasus: can people actually make a living constructing crosswords? i see some authors very frequently. or is it just a hobby.
MSO_MazeMan: The weekend articles at (www.msoworld.com/puzzles) make for interesting reading, too.
Will Shortz: Pegasus, most crossword constructors are other, full-time jobs.
MSO_MazeMan: I've been thrown bya few of the daily puzzles.
Will Shortz: have, not are
MSO_Admin: If only we could make a living solving them.
Will Shortz: Only about half a dozen Americans actually make their living from constructing puzzles.
Will Shortz: Wouldn't that be nice, Admin?!
MSO_Admin: What is the favourite puzzle in your collection Will?
Will Shortz: If the U.S. government can pay farmers not to grow corn, how about paying me to solve puzzles!
Puzzookies: Nice work if you can get it.
pegasus: me too. indeed.
Will Shortz: Admin, I'm thinking
MSO_Admin: Thanks
MSO_MazeMan: What if they offered to pay you NOT to solve puzzles? (I bet you wouldn't take it)
Will Shortz: You're right, MazeMan!
mathpuzzlecom: You could follow in Trip payne's footsteps, Will.
Will Shortz: I guess cryptic crosswords are my very favorite puzzles to solve.
Will Shortz: I love the ones in the Atlantic Monthly, for example.
Puzzookies: Could you define 'cryptic' in this context?
Will Shortz: "Cryptic crossword" is the standard term for the British-style crossword
Will Shortz: Instead of straightforward clues to the answers, every clue contains an anagram, homophone, or some other form of wordplay
Will Shortz: ... very artfully woven into a misleading clue to the answer
Will Shortz: Great fun to solve.
Puzzookies: Can you point me to a website?
Will Shortz: When I was growing up, Sam Loyd was my hero.
Will Shortz: Any British publication will have a cryptic crossword
Gabby: Do you have Across Lite, puzzookies?
Puzzookies: no
Will Shortz: The Times of London, the Guardian, the Independent, the Financial Times, the Daily Telegraph, etc.
Will Shortz: Here in the U.S. you'll find good cryptics in The Atlantic, Harper's, Games magazine ... and every 6 weeks or so on the bottom of the Sunday New York Times puzzle page.
Puzzookies: is one in the http://www.refdesk.com/crosswrd.html list?
Gabby: You can download it free from www.litsoft.com Then you can go to ...
Gabby: world.std.com/~wij/puzzles/cru and download those puzzles for solving.
Will Shortz: Just a few minutes left, so how about I give you all a puzzle?
Gabby: They're star-rated, which is helpful for picking out easier puzzles when you're just starting.
MSO_Admin: Please
Will Shortz: Every answer here is a familiar word, name, or phrase that contains *two* double-L's.
MSO_MazeMan: Definitely. Also, I'm curious: -- Are you thinking about having more puzzles with double-answers like you did for Election Day 1996?
Will Shortz: For example, if I gave you the clue "City in SE Washington," you would say ...
Will Shortz: WALLA WALLA
Will Shortz: I'll get back to you on that, MazeMan.
Will Shortz: #1 ...
Will Shortz: Legendary Swiss archer
Will Shortz: just type in your answer
pegasus: will tell
Will Shortz: Yes, Pegasus!
Will Shortz: #2 ...
Will Shortz: What people answer "Here!" for
Gabby: roll call
pegasus: roll call
Will Shortz: Yay, Gabby!
Will Shortz: With Pegasus right behind
Will Shortz: #3 ...
Will Shortz: Breakfast pastry
Will Shortz: Full of calories
Puzzookies: Thanks gotta go
steve: tell
mathpuzzlecom: jelly roll
MSO_MazeMan: groan
Will Shortz: That's it, math puzzle!
steve: roll call
Will Shortz: #4 ...
Will Shortz: Slang term for a coward
daisy: yellow belly
Will Shortz: Bravo!
Will Shortz: #5 ...
Will Shortz: Olympic sport with 6 players on a side
steve: jelly roll
Gabby: volleyball
ronaldo: volley ball
pegasus: volley ball
MSO_MazeMan: excellent
Will Shortz: Gabby's first! Bravo!
Will Shortz: #6 ...
Will Shortz: Waste time
steve: yellow belly
Gabby: kill milliseconds. :)
Will Shortz: hmmm
Will Shortz: Not what I had in mind, Gabby!
XXXword: dily dally
Will Shortz: Yes, XXX!
Will Shortz: #7 ...
Will Shortz: [also SHILLY SHALLY, by the way]
Will Shortz: #7 ...
Will Shortz: Resentment
Gabby: ill will
Will Shortz: Yes!!!
Will Shortz: #8 ...
Will Shortz: Outside the bounds of law
book: illegal call
Gabby: illegally
Will Shortz: That's it!
Will Shortz: I'll give you each a half-point for that
Will Shortz: #9 ...
Will Shortz: Host of the old "The Price Is Right"
steve: bill cullen
XXXword: bill cullen
Will Shortz: Super!
Will Shortz: Good going
Will Shortz: #10 ...
Will Shortz: Cigarette once advertised with the slogan "I'm particular"
pegasus: pall mall
XXXword: pellmell
ronaldo: pall mall
Will Shortz: Yes!!
Will Shortz: #11 ...
Will Shortz: Boring place, in '50s slang
Gabby: hell hall?
book: dull mill
Will Shortz: Almost, Book
pegasus: wasnt born then
ronaldo: dulls ville
XXXword: dullsville
Will Shortz: That's it, Ronaldo!
Will Shortz: #12 ...
Gabby: (me neither, but I should've known it)
Will Shortz: 1960s Broadway musical starring Carol Channing
Gabby: hello dolly
Will Shortz: Way to go, Gabby!
Will Shortz: #13 ...
pegasus: she's sharp
Will Shortz: Fill in the blank: Oct. 31st is ___ Eve
pegasus: all hallows
Will Shortz: Hurray!
Will Shortz: #14 ...
Will Shortz: Very revealing, as an unauthorized biography
steve: tell all
Gabby: tell all
MSO_MazeMan: Tell all
pegasus: tel all
Will Shortz: Steve gets it! Yay!
Will Shortz: #15 ...
Will Shortz: Operator-assisted telphoning
steve: collect call
Gabby: collect call
Will Shortz: Two in a row for Steve!
Will Shortz: #16 ...
Will Shortz: Grammy-winning pop group caught lip-synching their songs
Gabby: milli vanilli
daisy: milly vanilly
mathpuzzlecom: milli vanilli
XXXword: milli banilli
Will Shortz: Yay, Gabby!
Will Shortz: With Daisy right behind
Will Shortz: #17 ...
Will Shortz: 1863 Civil War battle site, in Virginia
mathpuzzlecom: Killing hIll
Will Shortz: nope
Will Shortz: name of a town in Virginia
book: ...valley
Will Shortz: nope
mathpuzzlecom: Battle of Little Round Top has two double t's
Will Shortz: Won by the Confederates Lee and Jackson
Will Shortz: Starts with a C
Will Shortz: Second letter H
Gabby: (resisting the urge to use Altavista)
book: chilling hill
XXXword: charlotte
Will Shortz: You Canadians and Europeans are excused on this one!
XXXword: sville
MSO_MazeMan: Chillicothe something (just picking straws)
Will Shortz: It does *end* in -ville
mathpuzzlecom: chillhillville valley
Will Shortz: Third letter A
XXXword: charlottesville?
Will Shortz: No Civil War buffs here, I see
Will Shortz: Sorry, XXX, that's got only one double-L
Gabby: Chapellsville?
Gabby: (Wild guess)
Will Shortz: Oh, I'll just tell ya
MSO_MazeMan: whew!
Will Shortz: CHANCELLORSVILLE
Will Shortz: And #18, your *last* one ...
Will Shortz: Popular political survey
MSO_Admin: gallup poll
XXXword: gallup poll
Will Shortz: Yay, Admin gets it!
Will Shortz: Well, it's been fun, kids.
mathpuzzlecom: One for you, Will.... Heartily informal
steve: Will...you're the best..thanks
MSO_MazeMan: Definitely,
MSO_Admin: Thanks for being here Will
MSO_MazeMan: thanks for coming
daisy: Thanks so much, Will!
pegasus: this was great fun
MSO_Admin: Glad that each one could be here too.
Will Shortz: I enjoyed it. See you all around.
mathpuzzlecom: And my EASTER puzzle.. any solvers?
MSO_Admin: I hope that Will will be back soon.
Will Shortz: Oh, yeah. What's the answer, math puzzle?
mathpuzzlecom: videocassette recorder
Will Shortz: Very cool!
Will Shortz: Remind me of that one *next* year, mathpuzzle!
mathpuzzlecom: Okay.
Will Shortz: That would make a great NPR challenge.
MSO_Admin: So thanks again for being here Mr. Will shortz, and all of the rest of you for your participation
MSO_MazeMan: Will and Admin both need to leave now, but if some of you would like to keep chatting, I will wait to get the transcript until the puzzling conversation is done. (and yes, I hope that Will comes back again).
Will Shortz: Bye, all!
cjr2000: thx
cjr2000: hope to be in wpc some time :)
Gabby: Bye, Will...
*****
This marks the end of the two-hour chat session with Will Shortz, Puzzle Editor for the New York Times.
There was some conversation about the World Puzzle Championship before the chat began. It is below.
MSO_Admin: Hi Gabby
Gabby: OK, I'm early for the Will Shortz thing.
MSO_Admin: Oh good.
Gabby: Just thought I'd drop in and double check.
MSO_Admin: Seems to be ok.
MSO_Admin: Is Gabby anyone I know? Or a really enthusiastic fan?
Gabby: (It's starting in about 1/2 an hour, right?
MSO_Admin: Most people get here late... Right
Gabby: Gabby is someone who was surfing unread messages in the NYT puzzle forums and said "Oh my! That's today!"
MSO_Admin: I am just working on an intro for the man now.
MSO_Admin: Ah.
MSO_Admin: Well, have you ever been by the site before?
Gabby: Not for more than a passing glance. Travelling to britain to compete is still out of my budget (I'm a student).
MSO_Admin: Welcome, we are all students, just some of us pay more to learn.
MSO_Admin: Where are you, if you don't mind me asking?
Gabby: Winnipeg, MB, Canada.
MSO_Admin: Ah the Cold City of Winnipeg.
Gabby: You're not getting your intro written. :)
MSO_Admin: I am a Canadian too.
MSO_Admin: How can I? The man has more in a summary of his life than most good books.
Gabby: High points:
Gabby: NYT Crossword editor
Gabby: NPR puzzlemaster.
Gabby: One of the founders of the World Team Puzzle Championships (right, Peter?)
MSO_Admin: I have quite a list of high points. :-)
PeterWPF: yes indeed! Will forwarded my mail to you?
MSO_Admin: I think that Peter connected and is just waiting for the chat to begin.
PeterWPF: Yes, I plan on just being a bystander
MSO_Admin: Do you two know each other?
Gabby: No, I just recognized you from your handle.
MSO_Admin: Or did you mean me for the mail?
Gabby: I was nearly a Canadian team member last year but my finances never materialized.
MSO_Admin: Too bad.
PeterWPF: Gabby, were you one of the top 5?
MSO_Admin: We just need to get the gov't to take an interest in mind sports, then life would be simpler.
Gabby: (Continuing the list) Long-time GAMES editor and creator of a number of new puzzle types.
MSO_Admin: Welcome Maze.
TheMazeMan: Hello, Rob.
TheMazeMan: Hello, Will.
MSO_Admin: Will?
TheMazeMan: whoops, sorry.
Gabby: (And holder of a degree in enigmatology.) And I'm *not* Will. :)
MSO_Admin: Yes, I have a list of his accomplishments. Those you have described and more.
Gabby: Peter: I placed 7th (I think) but was having browser problems for the online test.
Gabby: Just winnowing them down for you. :)
PeterWPF: too bad, you may have been very usefull to the team ;-)
Gabby: This fall it's in NYC - So if I qualify, I might be able to make it there.
Gabby: (Money won't be so much of a problem.)
PeterWPF: Of course you will qualify
PeterWPF: Hi Will
TheMazeMan: Hello, Will.
Will Shortz: Hi there. We're early!
TheMazeMan: ROb and I wanted to make sure if you had any questions for us, that you could ask them before 4 pm.
Gabby: Rob - where in Canada are *you* from, by the way?
Gabby: Hi, Will (sorry, didn't mean to be a snob)
MSO_Admin: I hope that is not a taste of things to come...
MSO_Admin: hello?
TheMazeMan: Hello, again.
Gabby: Present.
TheMazeMan: I hope that's your only crash of the day.
MSO_Admin: Ditto
Will Shortz: Hello Peter
PeterWPF: Hi again, just reading
Will Shortz: With the addition of France and Slovakia, the WPF will be up to 17 members.
Will Shortz: World Puzzle Federation, I mean
TheMazeMan: Is the WPF open to individual membership, or is it country memberships only?
Will Shortz: The real memberships are by country
Will Shortz: But if a country isn't represented, there can be up to 4 individual memberships, I believe
Will Shortz: A full list of member countries can be found at www.worldpuzzle.org
Gabby: Peter - does Canada have some individual members now?
PeterWPF: no they haven'
Will Shortz: Jeez, how did the computer know to turn my address into a link???
Will Shortz: I didn't do that!
TheMazeMan: Smarter computers than we think.
PeterWPF: the same way you email does it (probably)
Will Shortz: It's almost scary!
PeterWPF: We hope Canada will become a member this year
Gabby: Who is your contact person for that?
Will Shortz: Pretty soon we can accept another member from Keesing! :-)
Will Shortz: The Canadians have a WPF website
PeterWPF: you mean because we will 21 members?
Will Shortz: Right, Peter
Will Shortz: I forget the Canadian WPC website, but there's a link from the U.S. website
Will Shortz: www.puzzles-usa.org
Will Shortz: Jeez, it did it again!
Gabby: I know about that site. I was just wondering if there was anyone in particular spearheading it.
PeterWPF: Canadian website:http://www.carnifex.com/~john/wpc99/index.html
PeterWPF: http://www.carnifex.com/~john/wpc99/index.html
Will Shortz: John Wetmiller probably heads it up
PeterWPF: It is maintained by John Wetmiller
PeterWPF: you win, Will
Will Shortz: I'm a faster typist in English!
PeterWPF: maybe in Dutch too
MSO_Admin: Well, the chat should be starting within a minute by my watch.
PeterWPF: what are we doing now?
Will Shortz: Warmup
TheMazeMan: my clock shows the hour just started a minute ago.
MSO_Admin: lol
PeterWPF: right
MSO_Admin: Fair enough.
TheMazeMan: pre-chat over, regular chat begin?
Will Shortz: yup
*****
And after the chat was over, there was some conversation about puzzles in general
mathpuzzlecom: Amazing Maze man?
MSO_MazeMan: yes
mathpuzzlecom: Do you make mazes?
MSO_MazeMan: yes
MSO_MazeMan: www.MAZES.com
MSO_MazeMan: and www.God.Loves.Someone.net
mathpuzzlecom: Ah.. nice site. :)
MSO_MazeMan: are two places to find them.
MSO_MazeMan: It needs LOTS of work.
MSO_MazeMan: to make it a better site.
mathpuzzlecom: I know of mazemaker.com , logicmazes.com
MSO_MazeMan: I'm working on a revised site at (http://members.aol.com/MazeMan)
MSO_MazeMan: that will look better when I'm done.
mathpuzzlecom: Where do you live?
MSO_MazeMan: Arkansas.
MSO_MazeMan: You're in Colorado, I heard Will say.
MSO_MazeMan: I saw that you've contributed to NPR, so that must be how he knew.
mathpuzzlecom: Yes... I've known Will for a long time
MSO_MazeMan: so you were (TIC) when you said "How'd yhou know?
MSO_MazeMan: tongue in cheek.
mathpuzzlecom: Yes.
MSO_MazeMan: I wonder if I've met him. We were at the same school the same years.
mathpuzzlecom: I have many maze applets... very nice ones... listed at http://www.mathpuzzle.com/Links.html#Puzzle
MSO_MazeMan: did he ever do simple cartooning just to spoof things.
mathpuzzlecom: Not that I know of. His first puzzles were in Science Digest, if I remember right.
MSO_MazeMan: just got the dreaded 404 error
MSO_MazeMan: URL '/roll/ixroll.htm' cannot be found
mathpuzzlecom: Robert Abbott, Andrea Gilbert, and Ishihama Yoshiaki have all made interesting new maze ideas
mathpuzzlecom: I'll track that down and fix it. :-)
MSO_MazeMan: I dreamt a method to create four-dimensional mazes one night years ago.
MSO_MazeMan: Still remember waking up out of that dream, and I still remember the method, though I don't remember the dream itself anymore.
MSO_MazeMan: Anyway, I'll enjoy exploring your site.
MSO_MazeMan: book, cjr, gabby, this isn't an exclusive chat, jump right in.
mathpuzzlecom: http://www.gjnem.demon.co.uk/roll/test.html works...
Gabby: My national Puzzler's League solving partner is Instant-messaging me, or I'd be hopping right on in.
mathpuzzlecom: #3 there is frightfully hard
book: good night all, I have to leave
MSO_MazeMan: I'm not sure I understand #1
MSO_MazeMan: Sometimes, I have two blocks,
MSO_MazeMan: sometimes one
MSO_MazeMan: and sometimes it tells me I'm blocked when I'm two spaces away from an X
mathpuzzlecom: You have two cubes glued together
MSO_MazeMan: So the cubes roll?
mathpuzzlecom: You have to roll this to the finish area
MSO_MazeMan: And when i see only one, it's verticle.
mathpuzzlecom: Yes, that's right
MSO_MazeMan: vertical.
mathpuzzlecom: Correct
MSO_MazeMan: ok.
philo: hello
MSO_MazeMan: and do I need to end with it vertical on the last spot?
mathpuzzlecom: That's correct
MSO_MazeMan: Ok. THat explains why I didn't finish.
MSO_MazeMan: neat puzzle.
mathpuzzlecom: http://www.gjnem.demon.co.uk/roll/test.html is what we're talking about, Philo
mathpuzzlecom: You missed Will Shortz.
mathpuzzlecom: It's a great new genre of maze puzzles.
mathpuzzlecom: http://www.logicmazes.com/theseus.html is also extremely nice.
mathpuzzlecom: Lots of logic involved in figuring out an escape.
MSO_MazeMan: whew.
MSO_MazeMan: still didn't get #1
MSO_MazeMan: excellent concept.
mathpuzzlecom: Yes, these are tricky mazes. Small, but easy to get lost in. And fun to analyze.
mathpuzzlecom: http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~ishmnn/java/ballmaze/ballmaze.html is even simpler, and also very nice.
mathpuzzlecom: I wish I'd thought of it. Just 5x5 is enough for a hard maze.
mathpuzzlecom: Hello, Simon. The discussion has drifted to mazes, now that Will has left.
simon: thanks... just checking in... sorry i missed will
MSO_MazeMan: I'll be posting the entire discussion later.
simon: many thanks for that
MSO_MazeMan: check back at www.msoworld.com/chat/index.html
mathpuzzlecom: http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~ishmnn/java/ballmaze/ballmaze.html is the current maze series
MSO_MazeMan: I just got eaten by your minotaur.
MSO_MazeMan: I did something similar years ago, but the disk it was on crashed, and I never re did it.
cjr2000: that looks little like that old macintosh game
mathpuzzlecom: You really should try to avoid getting eaten. :-)
MSO_MazeMan: It was a get the gold and return to the start puzzle.
MSO_MazeMan: but my monster only moved once for each of my moves, and it was easy to trap him.
simon: have a nice evening... or late night depending on where you are!
MSO_MazeMan: Yes, you too.
cjr2000: did any of you try a macintosh game...
cjr2000: heaven and earth
MSO_MazeMan: afraid I didn't.
mathpuzzlecom: I think Scott Kim did that one... yes, I've played it
cjr2000: it is very interesting i thing, though long since played it
mathpuzzlecom: I believe that puzzle is now in a shockwave version at www.scottkim.com
MSO_MazeMan: Since we're into subjects that might not be of interest to many, I'm going to retrieve the transcript now.
MSO_MazeMan: Talk to you all later.
cjr2000: dont see it, just see link which says game is no longer valid
mathpuzzlecom: It's a link to http://www.segasoft.com/lab/index.html ... Double maze
mathpuzzlecom: Which is okay... but takes too long to load.
cjr2000: interesting, thanks for link :)
cjr2000: bye, those who are left
mathpuzzlecom: I'll take off, too.
Gabby: Likewise. Davidbod, if you're here for the Will Shortz chat, I'm afraid it concluded about 20 minutes ago.
Gabby: Any parting thoughts?
Gabby: Ta-ta then...
fancykan: am I the only one here?
fancykan: is the chat session over?
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